Jones & McLean

Curriculum is foundational to everything we do in schools — but what do we actually mean when we say “curriculum”, and why is it so difficult to get right?
In this episode we discuss:
The different meanings of curriculum, from national and state frameworks to what is actually taught in classrooms
Why Australian curriculum documents often lack the detail and coherence schools need
How vague, skills-based content descriptions leave schools doing foundational curriculum development themselves
Why curriculum development requires deep subject expertise, ambitious thinking and attention to detail
The importance of shared curriculum ownership and oversight in schools
** One Good Woman **
This episode’s One Good Woman is Christine Counsell, a former history teacher and one of the UK's leading curriculum thinkers.
We discuss Counsell’s work on the importance of subject knowledge and curriculum content, including her argument that decisions about what to teach must come before decisions about how to teach it.
Listen to Christine Counsell on Mind the Gap
** Research mentioned in this episode **
Christodoulou, D. (2016). Making Good Progress? The Future of Assessment for Learning. Oxford University Press.
This book examines the relationship between curriculum, assessment and progression, including the limitations of describing learning through generic skills rather than specifying the knowledge students need to acquire.
Find the book
** Also mentioned **
National curriculum in England: Primary curriculum
Emina discusses the greater specificity of England’s primary curriculum, particularly in English, where expectations include explicit detail about spelling, grammar and foundational literacy knowledge.
Ruth Ashbee — Curriculum: Theory, Culture and the Subject Specialisms
We also discuss Ruth Ashbee’s work on the purposes of school curriculum, including democratic participation, preparation for further learning and the value of knowledge for its own sake.
** Notices **
Leading with Literacy — PETAA Conference
Emina is presenting a session on sustainable curriculum development and leadership at the Primary English Teaching Association Australia (PETAA) conference in Sydney.
Find out more about PETAA
Music in Schools — Victorian Department of Education
Bron gives a shout-out to Music in Schools, a Victorian Department of Education initiative supporting primary teachers to develop their music teaching expertise through mentoring, professional learning and school resources.
Find out more about Music in Schools
** Get in touch **
If you’re enjoying Jones & McLean, we’d love you to follow the podcast and leave us a rating or review. Get in touch at jonesmcleanpod@gmail.com

Cold Call has become a familiar classroom technique — but there’s more to doing it well than simply asking a question and choosing a student to answer.
In this episode we discuss:
What Cold Call is — and what the research tells us about it
Why randomising student selection can create problems
The importance of teacher judgement when deciding who to call on
Why Cold Call works best after everyone has had an opportunity to think
How writing, pair talk and mini whiteboards can strengthen Cold Call
 
** One Good Woman **
This episode’s One Good Woman is Elise Dallimore, whose research has examined Cold Calling in university classrooms.
We discuss Dallimore and colleagues’ research into how Cold Calling affects students’ participation, including work examining students’ comfort with participating in class and the relationship between Cold Calling and voluntary participation.
Her work is a useful reminder that Cold Call isn’t simply about getting more students to answer questions: the way the technique is established and used matters.
 
** Research mentioned in this episode **
Dallimore, E. J., Hertenstein, J. H., & Platt, M. B. (2013). Impact of Cold-Calling on Student Voluntary Participation. Journal of Management Education, 37(3), 305–341.
This study examined the relationship between Cold Calling and students’ voluntary participation in class. The researchers found that high levels of Cold Calling were associated with increased voluntary participation, and that students became more comfortable participating as the course progressed.
Read the study
 
** Also mentioned **
Building the Cold Call craft
Bron has also written about Cold Call over at The Implementation Edit, including why Cold Call is more sophisticated than it can first appear, the problems with randomised selection, and the importance of embedding it within a broader set of responsive teaching routines.
 
** Notices **
Next Steps in Responsive Teaching
A digital masterclass with Bron27 January 2027 | 9.30am–1.30pmRegister here
 
There are new eps coming soon on Emina’s other podcast. Heavy is the English Head
 
** Get in touch **
If you’re enjoying Jones & McLean, we’d love you to follow the podcast and leave us a rating or review. Get in touch at jonesmcleanpod@gmail.com
 

Slides appear to have become a common tool for teaching — but when are they genuinely useful, and when might a different resource be required?
In this episode, we take a closer look at slide decks. We explore the things slides can do particularly well: supporting fast-paced review, vocabulary instruction, visual representations and pre-planned checks for understanding.
But we also look at the risks. What happens when the slide deck becomes the curriculum — or the plan itself? Does giving every teacher the same deck really create consistency? And what gets lost when static slides replace live modelling, rich texts, concrete materials or interactions with students?
In this episode
When slides are a genuinely useful instructional tool
Why shared slide decks can be helpful for large teaching teams
Why slides shouldn’t become the plan
The difference between consistency of resource and consistency of instruction
Why “low variance” slide decks don’t necessarily produce low-variance teaching
The importance of choosing resources that suit the subject and the learning
One Good Woman: Ruth Ashbee
This episode’s One Good Woman is Ruth Ashbee, teacher, school leader and author of Curriculum: Theory, Culture and the Subject Specialisms.
We discuss Ruth’s work on curriculum, knowledge and subject disciplines — and particularly the importance of thinking carefully about how curriculum and its resources work differently across subject areas.
Ruth Ashbee — Curriculum: Theory, Culture and the Subject SpecialismsRead more about the book at Routledge
Research mentioned in this episode
Does teaching with PowerPoint increase students’ learning?
Baker, J. P., Goodboy, A. K., Bowman, N. D., & Wright, A. A. (2018). Does teaching with PowerPoint increase students’ learning? A meta-analysis. Computers & Education, 126, 376–387.
Read the study
This meta-analysis brought together 48 studies conducted over 22 years. Overall, students taught with PowerPoint did not demonstrate greater cognitive learning than students taught using traditional approaches. The authors argue that the more useful question is not simply whether PowerPoint is used, but how it is integrated into teaching to support learning.
Also mentioned
Next Steps in Responsive TeachingA digital masterclass with Bron
27 January 2027 | 9.30am–1.30pm
Register here
Heavy is the English Head
There are new eps coming soon on Emina’s other podcast.
Heavy is the English Head
Get in touch
If you’re enjoying Jones & McLean, we’d love you to follow the podcast and leave us a rating or review. Get in touch at jonesmcleanpod@gmail.com

For our first episode, we’re starting with the people at the heart of education: teachers.
We unpack the complexity of teachers’ work — the relentless decision-making, trade-offs and problem-solving that happen every day in classrooms — and ask why this complexity is so often underestimated by people outside schools.
We also take on the idea that teachers are “resistant to change”. What if resistance is sometimes reasonable scepticism, professional judgement, or an important signal that leaders should pay attention to?
Along the way, we talk about the surprisingly solitary nature of teaching, why building deep professional knowledge matters more than searching for quick fixes, and why we need to better value the wisdom and experience of teachers who have been in the profession for decades.
Plus, we introduce our regular segment “One Good Woman”, celebrating a woman in education whose work we think you should know.
In this episode
Why teaching is such complex and relentless work
The constant decisions and trade-offs teachers make in real classrooms
The surprisingly solitary nature of classroom teaching
Why teachers receive so little positive feedback on their practice
The value of video models and opportunities to observe other teachers
Rethinking the idea that teachers are resistant to change
Listening for the “signal” when teachers push back
Valuing the knowledge and wisdom of our most experienced teachers
Links & things we mention
Tasmania's Lifting Literacy workEmina talks about her work supporting the implementation of Tasmania's Lifting Literacy reforms.Lifting Literacy — Tasmania DECYP
Effective teacher professional development — Sam Sims and colleaguesWe refer to the work of Sam Sims and colleagues on the mechanisms of effective professional development, including developing insight, building motivation, developing techniques and embedding practice.Effective Teacher Professional Development: New Theory and a Meta-Analytic Test
Victorian Education Excellence AwardsBron talks about judging the Victorian Education Excellence Awards, and our One Good Woman, Alice Jury, was the 2025 Outstanding Primary Teacher.Victorian Education Excellence Awards
Heavy is the English HeadEmina's podcast about the nitty-gritty of leadership in English and literacy. Alice Jury features in Episode 2.Heavy is the English Head — Emina McLean
Realising Responsive Teaching — 12 February 2027Bron is hosting an in-person conference in Melbourne, focused on the nitty-gritty of classroom practice and implementation. The event is currently sold out, with a waitlist open while we explore releasing additional tickets.Realising Responsive Teaching — Event information
Get in touch
Have an observation, question or issue in education you'd like us to explore?
We'd love to hear from you at jonesmcleanpod@gmail.com